Player-built dungeons
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Ashon



Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 86
Location: Seattle

PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KaVir wrote:
Ashon wrote:
So, we aren't so much talking about building a 'dungeon' in the classical sense, what we are talking about is building the defenses of a resource?


Yes - although it'd say it still keeps the classic dungeon objective of "kick down the door, kill the monsters, and steal the loot" Wink All you're really doing is inventing a reason for players to build the dungeon, hire the monsters, and leave the loot lying around.


Okay, and to the gameplay element of this issue, is it in the system for PvP reasons, or is it in there for Content Generation reasons? For the former, It's an interesting take on PvP bordering almost on the Kingdoms mode of gameplay. If it's Content Generation, wouldn't it just be easier to write a Roguelike Dungeon Generator?

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I have a feeling however, that assuming these resources are used for crafting, that the only ones who are going to want to defend them or control them, are going to be the crafters, who I suspect are already going to be interested in content generation. So I'm still not sure that under this 'resource defense' concept will work.


Well it depends on the resource and what it represents. If you create a resource which is only valuable to players of type X, then obviously only those players are likely to be interested in it. And I'd agree that appealing to crafters would likely be a poor idea, as they're less likely to be interested in smashing their way through other players dungeons.

However the resource doesn't have to be something for crafters - it could be anything. Think of it as a form of currency if you prefer, something which can be made valuable to all players.


Just as a sidetracking rambling thought, what are the types of resources that are applicable to the different player types? Assuming the widely recognized 4 (HnS'er, Crafter, Explorer, and Socialite). I'm not able to see anything that we as administrators could add that would be of interest to all 4. And, I seem to not be able to think outside of the box this morning, so I can't see resources that the other three would be interested in protecting.

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I'd rather avoid the 'end game' edge, on the basis that the dungeons are not likely to be something you'd keep for a long period of time - you'd try to defend them, sure, but other people would be constantly trying to take them away from you.


Okay. Fine, no End Game Scenario. So, you've built this dungeon to protect this resource, how fast does it generate the income? Is it going to be fast enough to ensure the resource point is defendable for any length of time? Because if that's the case, late night raids (when no one else is on, or very few people are on) could be very beneficial to players, as then they wouldn't have to defend them, just claim them and put it at 100% gain for the player.

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I just realized that this really is a matter of, how to get builders to be players without making them staff members. Builders are your content generators in the game, but the work OOC. And what we really are talking about is how to make the Builders work IC. Instead of rewarding them with the Staff Title, how do we reward them in-game?


By making the content generation part of the game, and that's what I'm trying to achieve.


I think that there are better suited ways to insert content generation into the game. I think artistic skills, which generate cultural identity, is a good addition. I think an open ended skill/magic system that can be mixed together during crafting inserts new and interesting content. Allowing the players to be able to breed new monsters, or even an darwinism algorithm, where the players actions help cull and strengthen the other races adds content. But I really think that the End Game is where content Generation can explode. You have to enable the players to influence the world, and make waves throughout the world. The people who have played through what you've made for them, and want to give back, and are enabled to give the most.

We all know that this where Builders in Mature MUD's come from. The playerbase itself. And a couple of us have harped on players who just want to jump right in and be a builder(or coder) for any old mud. These are the End Game scenarios for muds. Advancing to Hero Level, and then onto Wizlevels. So, why not create the mechanisms (as we are discussing) to create the world a little less boring (OLC!) and a little more Gamish (Player Housing Methodolgies) and make it the end game. Diffuse and dispel the idea that Wizlevels are the End Game Scenario.
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Ashon



Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 86
Location: Seattle

PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Molly O'Hara wrote:
After several years as head builder, I'd be really reluctant to let 'ordinary' players loose in the Mud with any sort of building tools, simply because of all the totally crappy attempts at building that I have witnessed over the years. If the players were to write the descriptions and create the monsters and weapons themselves, without any supervision, it would most likely dilute and degrade the quality of the mud in general.

But perhaps we are talking about code generated descs and mobs or prewritten prototypes that they could just load?


Sort of. I think we are talking about a little something in between. It would be like logging onto one of those car sites. And being able to build your own car. You get to choose the paint, you get to choose the internal options, leather, stereo deck, type of chair, the panelling. Then you get to choose the external options, type of muffler, spoiler, sunroof, fog lights, hydrogen lights...

And then you've got your own car. And a cost is associated with it. You didn't make your own car, but you feel ownership of it, and it's unique to you, in relation to what your friends may want in a car. So we take those Object-Oriented code, and we expose all the little things in options for players. They won't be writing the descriptive text, but they will definitely be able to set the tone and feel of the place.

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I guess a similar system could be used to generate terrain, castles, dungeons etc. to hold and defend. But I really agree with Rendelven, that unless there are some hefty rewards in comparison with what they get from the other gameplay, I don't think the players will bother with it for very long. Our players mine mainly because there is a legendary weapon hidden in the middle of a maze somewhere in the 1000 room mine, guarded by a formidable mob and with a quest to get to the weapon once you passed that guardian. Sure, they pick up the ore and the gemstones on the way too, but what really keeps them mining is the off chance of getting that weapon.


I agree with this statement. But I think what KaVir is trying to get at is, "Imagine that there is a reward for guarding this point, but it really doesn't matter to this discussion what that reward is"
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KaVir



Joined: 11 May 2005
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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Okay, and to the gameplay element of this issue, is it in the system for PvP reasons, or is it in there for Content Generation reasons?


Both - as well as player-vs-mob reasons.

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For the former, It's an interesting take on PvP bordering almost on the Kingdoms mode of gameplay. If it's Content Generation, wouldn't it just be easier to write a Roguelike Dungeon Generator?


I've aleady got one, but - just like PK as opposed to fighting mobs - I find there's a certain pleasure to be had from pitting your wits against fellow players.

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Just as a sidetracking rambling thought, what are the types of resources that are applicable to the different player types? Assuming the widely recognized 4 (HnS'er, Crafter, Explorer, and Socialite). I'm not able to see anything that we as administrators could add that would be of interest to all 4.


Well...money? Of course if the in-game currency only has value to a fraction of your playerbase then there's likely a serious design problem, but I think that would probably be better addressed by another thread.

Another possibility would be some specialised form of resource which can only be gained in this way, which can give boosts to a number of different things beneficial to all player types. The major drawback of this is that you're effectively making the system mandatory, and that's not something I want to do.

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So, you've built this dungeon to protect this resource, how fast does it generate the income?


No faster than once per hour, but no slower than once per day. It could also 'ramp up' over the first day, and I'd suggest that it provide no resource (but be unattackable) for the first hour or two, to give the owner time to put some defences in place.

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Is it going to be fast enough to ensure the resource point is defendable for any length of time?


Well the idea is that you'd leave mobs to defend it for you, rather than stand there yourself (although I suppose you could do that as well).

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Because if that's the case, late night raids (when no one else is on, or very few people are on) could be very beneficial to players, as then they wouldn't have to defend them, just claim them and put it at 100% gain for the player.


As I mentioned before, I'd have it so that you had to allocate at least half of the resources to defences - if someone did the above, they'd be wasting the chance to have defences in place. I'd also be assuming a more international playerase, so while what you describe might happen, there would be others who would just take those undefended dungeons as soon as the others had moved off.

In addition, guards killed within your dungeon would likely be reanimated ready for the next raid (the resources would bring them back) and you'd gain additional resources from players killed by your guards.

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I think that there are better suited ways to insert content generation into the game. I think artistic skills, which generate cultural identity, is a good addition.


For a roleplaying mud perhaps, but not for one focused on gameplay. Plus the content would only be for the creator - the dungeons would also provide content for the rest of the playerbase.

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I think an open ended skill/magic system that can be mixed together during crafting inserts new and interesting content.


Once again, only for the player doing the crafting.

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Allowing the players to be able to breed new monsters, or even an darwinism algorithm, where the players actions help cull and strengthen the other races adds content.


That'd be better, yes - it would allow players to breed monsters that other players could fight. It would also fit very well into the dungeon idea.

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But I really think that the End Game is where content Generation can explode. You have to enable the players to influence the world, and make waves throughout the world. The people who have played through what you've made for them, and want to give back, and are enabled to give the most.


And this wouldn't stop that - but it would allow...no, encourage other players to contribute as well. Because it would be part of the game.
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Ashon



Joined: 11 May 2005
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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KaVir wrote:
Quote:
So, you've built this dungeon to protect this resource, how fast does it generate the income?


No faster than once per hour, but no slower than once per day. It could also 'ramp up' over the first day, and I'd suggest that it provide no resource (but be unattackable) for the first hour or two, to give the owner time to put some defences in place.

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Is it going to be fast enough to ensure the resource point is defendable for any length of time?


<SNIP>

Well the idea is that you'd leave mobs to defend it for you, rather than stand there yourself (although I suppose you could do that as well).


What I was getting at, is if it's too fast, players are going to not bother defending it at all, and if it's too slow, players aren't going to be able to defend it at all. If it's too slow, the traps, guards and everything else are going to get slaughtered by an invading force rather quickly. By defending, I mean setting up the mob's and traps, and not actually defending it by themselves. This issue is of course the balance issue which could only be worked out during play.

I wonder if anyone else has run a capture the flag type scenario like this before? And what the outcome of it has been. Especially one that's not a one shot, I know that there are MUD's that have had Clan Wars where you can raid other Clans for 'resources', but on the games I've played they are only doable during Clan Wars. Anyone got any insight?


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I think that there are better suited ways to insert content generation into the game. I think artistic skills, which generate cultural identity, is a good addition.


For a roleplaying mud perhaps, but not for one focused on gameplay. Plus the content would only be for the creator - the dungeons would also provide content for the rest of the playerbase.


Well, and that's the difference between our games, I'm more into attracting explorer's and crafters, who are going to be interested in systems like that. Very Happy

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Allowing the players to be able to breed new monsters, or even an darwinism algorithm, where the players actions help cull and strengthen the other races adds content.


That'd be better, yes - it would allow players to breed monsters that other players could fight. It would also fit very well into the dungeon idea.


Wouldn't it? I like the idea a lot. But haven't investigated beyond the: this would be cool stage.

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But I really think that the End Game is where content Generation can explode. You have to enable the players to influence the world, and make waves throughout the world. The people who have played through what you've made for them, and want to give back, and are enabled to give the most.


And this wouldn't stop that - but it would allow...no, encourage other players to contribute as well. Because it would be part of the game.


Oh I'm not saying that this wouldn't encourage that. I was just rambling off on Content Generation, and getting caught up in my own thought process.
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Spazmatic



Joined: 18 May 2005
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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2005 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

An interesting way of looking at dungeons is available in Adam Cadre's IF, Lock & Key. http://adamcadre.ac/if.html

Basically, the player builds a dungeon from parts, and a captured hero tries to escape from it. When done correctly, the player wins. In this particular case, the player learns the heroes weaknesses by repeatedly building dungeons and failing miserably, until, after iteratively expanding his or her knowledge of the gameplay mechanics, the player sets down a perfect dungeon.

Now, clearly this isn't something you can port to a MUD directly. However, I think it demonstrates a lot of useful aspects, especially for someone like me who has certainly never built a dungeon generation system:
1) Interesting traps, in variety make dungeon building and crawling fun. Throw in some interesting solutions too, so players have to come prepared.
2) Players are going to learn iteratively. If Bob likes to raid your dungeons, you'll soon learn what does and does not work against him. The same goes for dungeon raiders learning about the dungeonkeepers style. You'll probably also learn good general tricks against, say, mages, which you can use to protect a mana-enhancing resource.

Also, aside from those (obvious?) properties, I'd like to offer an unrelated opinion - the whole player-built dungeon idea might work better for non-static resources (thieves could come in, for example, and steal it). Simply make it A) impossible to log off with the resource in hand, and B) impractical to carry it into battle. Examples? Religious relics that give the owner some holy powers, or perhaps are very important to a guild. Mainly, I think this would be better since it would allow dungeons to be deadlier, and players to spend more time building and enhancing them. More long-term content, such as guild equipment storage, then short-term content.

Just a thought.
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KaVir



Joined: 11 May 2005
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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2005 7:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Also, aside from those (obvious?) properties, I'd like to offer an unrelated opinion - the whole player-built dungeon idea might work better for non-static resources (thieves could come in, for example, and steal it).


Hrm, I think it would be extremely annoying if you spent time and effort fighting your way past the guards and traps of the dungeon, only to find that Bubba was currently using the Beermug of Holding in his local pub. However I wouldn't mind having a stealable aspect as well.

The specific design I was considering for my mud is based around planes of existence. Each player has their own personal plane, which they can customise and terraform as they see fit - however it's very much a private playground. The sole exception would be specific locations in the main world, where a player could 'anchor' part of their personal plane.

By travelling to the elemental planes it'll be possible for players to collect Elemental Hearts. These are designed for a number of purposes (including the now rather overdone Diablo2 item-slots). However these would also be required to anchor your personal plane - and each Elemental Heart beyond the first would strengthen the tie (although also make it more accessable, as the location would exist in all associated elemental planes as well as the material plane).

This would then provide the stealable aspect you suggest (you could loot the plane for its Elemental Heart power source) as well as disconnecting the plane (allowing you to tie your own personal plane there if you wished, and cutting off a source of income for your victim).

Another major advantage of this approach is that the 'dungeon' (or whatever defence you've got in place) doesn't get completely trashed every time someone beats it - just disconnected from the main game. The player can then refine it, test it, and find a new place to anchor it. It would also allow players to have a practice before connecting their plane for the first time, as they could invite friends to give their dungeon a test-run within a controlled environment.
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Alayla



Joined: 11 May 2005
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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2005 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KaVir wrote:
By travelling to the elemental planes it'll be possible for players to collect Elemental Hearts. These are designed for a number of purposes (including the now rather overdone Diablo2 item-slots). However these would also be required to anchor your personal plane - and each Elemental Heart beyond the first would strengthen the tie (although also make it more accessable, as the location would exist in all associated elemental planes as well as the material plane).

This would then provide the stealable aspect you suggest (you could loot the plane for its Elemental Heart power source) as well as disconnecting the plane (allowing you to tie your own personal plane there if you wished, and cutting off a source of income for your victim).


I still think this would work better if the total amount of hearts in the world was limited. It'd probably rule out the item-slots use, but as you said, that's already a bit of a cliche by now. Having, let's say, only 50 hearts in the whole world would make the plane-building game more competitive, as after a while you couldn't get them from the elemental planes (unless a heart somewhere has been destroyed), but only from raiding other people's planes - an obvious motivation for people to play in those areas, and a motivation for the owner to plan their area well.

One issue that still needs to be solved is how to prevent people from making their planes so rigged that nobody can complete them...
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Tyche



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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2005 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ashon wrote:
Molly O'Hara wrote:
After several years as head builder, I'd be really reluctant to let 'ordinary' players loose in the Mud with any sort of building tools, simply because of all the totally crappy attempts at building that I have witnessed over the years. If the players were to write the descriptions and create the monsters and weapons themselves, without any supervision, it would most likely dilute and degrade the quality of the mud in general.

But perhaps we are talking about code generated descs and mobs or prewritten prototypes that they could just load?


Sort of. I think we are talking about a little something in between. It would be like logging onto one of those car sites. And being able to build your own car. You get to choose the paint, you get to choose the internal options, leather, stereo deck, type of chair, the panelling. Then you get to choose the external options, type of muffler, spoiler, sunroof, fog lights, hydrogen lights...

And then you've got your own car. And a cost is associated with it. You didn't make your own car, but you feel ownership of it, and it's unique to you, in relation to what your friends may want in a car. So we take those Object-Oriented code, and we expose all the little things in options for players. They won't be writing the descriptive text, but they will definitely be able to set the tone and feel of the place.


How about letting the players create their own dungeons for other players? Give them the tools. Except we'll call them dreams instead of dungeons, and then we'll cover all the characters head to toe in colorful fur. Smile
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Spazmatic



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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2005 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
One issue that still needs to be solved is how to prevent people from making their planes so rigged that nobody can complete them...


As long as there's a path, there's a way? It might be a viciously hard way guarded by 34 dragons, but at least in KaVir's case, I imagine a team of angry supernaturals could get through just about everything. In general, that should probably be kept true - if you have a balanced party that can detect traps, bash monsters, and so forth, you should be able to get through any array of traps and guards, if you're careful (and maybe heal up between rooms).

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Hrm, I think it would be extremely annoying if you spent time and effort fighting your way past the guards and traps of the dungeon, only to find that Bubba was currently using the Beermug of Holding in his local pub. However I wouldn't mind having a stealable aspect as well.


I like the plane example, and it seems to do a great job of incorporating theft without, well, empty treasure chest syndrome. However, in the general (non-plane) case, this could be a problem - you certainly don't want to prevent players from finding clever ways through (unless cutting down every ugly orc in the way is that much fun), but how do you let them know there's something worth getting at the end?

Or... should fake dungeons and empty dungeons be part of the plan? I can certainly see advantages. You could place the treasure somewhere a little difficult to guess, such as in the dungeon's men's room. Normally, players would clear every single room, including the loo, but by having four dungeons, the player might simply decide that the dungeon was a fake? I think that could actually be a good feature, at least in certain cases.
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Kelson



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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 4:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think players would certainly love to fight through another player's property for goal A or B, provided there was some way of encouraging players to try it (ie, someone paying them to return item X from dungeon Y made by ArchMage Z) and the other player has a good reason to defend it (they like item X!!!). That being said, I think it would take a lot of work to make sure the system was solveable - and hopefully not just by brute force (which makes it far more difficult).

By the way, it took me 3 hours to beat that damn IF game (Lock & Key)...couldn't find the right combination of stuff to kill Boldo. Damn adventurers.
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Spazmatic



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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
That being said, I think it would take a lot of work to make sure the system was solveable - and hopefully not just by brute force (which makes it far more difficult).


Unless you're talking about allowing players to write riddles or something, I don't see why it can't be checked?

A) Determine if there is a path.
B) If you have really complicated traps with really complicated solutions, it may be worth checking that you never allowed two traps to coexist that are mutually exclusive, i.e. one requires turning invisible to pass through, but one requires being visible to pass through, and they are for some reason exclusive, say due to a magical dampening field.

Aside from that, I don't see why it should be difficult? Am I missing something important?

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By the way, it took me 3 hours to beat that damn IF game (Lock & Key)...couldn't find the right combination of stuff to kill Boldo. Damn adventurers.


Aha, but that was the entire point. You learned, iteratively, how to build a better dungeon (admittedly a very contrived sort of better). That's a major goal for a good player-content-dungeon system, no?
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Baeran



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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I actually like the idea of explaining it as a dream, and the colored fur would be entertaining aswell...

It would be cool though to give the players a set of pre-fabricated rooms, objects and mobs and let them make a dream for others to go through. Of course you would have to devote a builder so that any player that actually had a worthwhile idea for something not already in the list of pre-fab stuff could get it added. The builder would (hopefully) stop the proliferation of things like flaming swords made out of ice and the spear of thermonuclear death...

Anyways I am done.

Edit : Upon looking at what I just wrote I thought I should point out that I realize the point of the exercise is to make players build content for players with a minimum of staff time being used. I really just wanted to point out that the idea of explaining it as a dream I found quite cool, would give players something to do as the slept I guess...
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Ashon



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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KaVir wrote:
Hrm, I think it would be extremely annoying if you spent time and effort fighting your way past the guards and traps of the dungeon, only to find that Bubba was currently using the Beermug of Holding in his local pub. However I wouldn't mind having a stealable aspect as well.


And I would find it annoying to have spent all this time working on building a dungeon to lose it when someone else broke in (This is drawing from the generic outline of the system).

But I think that there is a middle ground here. By claiming an unclaimed resource spot, you control it, period. Lemme take your heart example from your game. When raiding someone elses plane, and you get to the center of the dungeon, you can rip off a piece of that heart, carry it around with you, and when you get back to your own plane, you can attach it to your heart and make it more powerful. At some point however, the heart can't be ripped up any more. But raiding to get into it perhaps weakens the plane in some way.

Back in the day when I first started thinking about my own mud, I had an Idea similiar to this. Where the Wizzes, had to build their own wizard towers, and inside of it they had their items of power. Players could try and raid these towers to get the items of power, and by breaking them would be granted a favor/wish from that wizard. And so A wizard had an amount of favors/wishes that they could grant. Which would be increased by adding areas/code to the game. But I discarded the thought/idea because I couldn't find an acceptable way to balance the system out.
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RuinsOfFeyrin



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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello All-

Well i have a few thoughts and ideas on this particular subject, how it can be accomplsihed, and answers to some of the whys. This is mainly about the questions "Why would a player make a structure?", and "How do we keep it balanced". The concept of a structure goes a bit beyond a dungeon or atleast in the sense i was thought you guys were using it.

What are Structures?
Structures are just that, and structure that a player owns, be it a house, shop, castle, dungeon, etc.

Why Build a Structure?
There are a ways you can encourage a player to build a structure.

The first being limiting their storage capacity of items/money on themselves and at a bank. You would obviously want to do this within a reasonable level so as not to become annoying to the player, but instead make it the smart thing to do. Players now buy houses which they can put items, and chests with money in.

The second reason would be a player run shop. If player run shops sell items the player made, or puchased to be sold at his shop, then it could be reasonable to assume that perhaps players could try to steal from these shops, or the shopkeeper. Now my persoanl opinion would be that anything be sold in the shop should actually be in the building somehwere for a player to attempt to get to and steal, as i find it a bit unrealistic that the shopkeeper could be holding all the items he could possibly be selling on him at one time.

The third reason is basically an expansion on the first one, but i felt the added utility of it qualified it for its own category. Players can also purchase, or build keeps. Owning a keep would have its own benefit of allowing a player to start to amass an army(upto the size the keep could sustain). This idea would now being to branch off into the large-scale battle, an Player-bred monsters threads as well. Keeps would have diffrent options each costing various somes of money, and granting additional things your keep can do. The keep of course provides the same functionality as a player house, the ability to store items and money, but in a larger cooler, more secure building Smile

How to keep it balanced
How the balance works is each thing the player adds, costs some money at some point. You can build the basic structers fairly cheap if you can get all the supplies yourself, and have the proper skill to build it(In my system anyways). When it comes time to adding NPC's they cost money, and traps, and decorations, etc. Those all add up unless you can make them. Even if you do make them, NPC's and various other things you add to your structure, and even the structure itself has a level of monetary upkeep that is required.

How this works to keep thigns balanced is players are trying to protect thier own money and loot, but in order to do this they have to spend money and sell loot. So the player will try to acheive an "appropriate" level of difficulty themselves because its not safe to leave your stuff unprotected, your gonna get robbed! And the player isnt gonna blow all their money and loot on defending the place, cause what would they have to defend then. Obviously there will be idiot players who dont protect themselves at all, and there will be the overly peraniod who spend 1000 gold to protect 3gold and his favorite blanky from when he was a kid, but on the whole i think players will achieve the level of balance themselves just because of the very nature of this model.


Issues to consider
There is one issue to consider with this that i see. Overly powerful players who have been around forever pillaging lower plaeyrs who are just starting out.

My first solution to this is have an option for locks and traps that skews the results in favor of the lock if someone with an absurd level of skill is attempting to pick it. This option is ment specifically for things related to player structures. Basically it stops anyone from having over a 50% chance of succeding in picking a lock, or disarming a trap. Why only 50%? Well yeah realistic a truley skilled person should have a 100% chance to do this, and in the other aspects of my game a person can have a 100% chance to pick a lock or disarm a trap. But i felt in this particular scenario that letting players have that ability over other players would simply leade to griefing and that this might be a plausible solution and worked in a more IC sense then my second solution.

The second solution was to have a structure keep track of who has broken into it in the past X amount of days, and basically just tell the player to leave the poor player alone you already broke into their place once in the pst Y days. Its not very realistic, and its not very immersive since a buss off message basiclly appears otu of nowhere with no In game explination for it. But as i said, without some sort of counter measure, this could lead to insane griefing.


How it would work
The creation of these zones would use a simple step by step editor, and combine peices together in a lego like fashion as has been done previously with other player housing. As far as descriptions being generated, i think there would be a base 2-3 line description that would be generated when you build the house based on the particular room style selected, wall type and color, etc. These would be pre created snippets of sentances that are designed to be peiced together(nothing to new here right). After that i think the rest of the description would be 100% dynamically generated off the contents of the room so simply be placing the items in the room they are creating the description.

Then i have things called anchor points. Anchor points have the option of letting people, or items that are anchorable anchor to them. What an anchor does it let you place something(yourself or an object) "at" a particular point in a give room. Anchor points are assigned to rooms based of the prfabs they were created from. After that you can enter an item placement prompt and see the various anchor points in the room, and begin to "move" the furniture around within the room.


So yeah thats the basics of my idea. I know some of it was already mentioned, but i just wanted to spit it out as a whole idea so everyone got the full picture.

If this is basicalyl what you were talking about then i think i misunderstood your concept of the dungeon, and its purpose and for that im sorry.
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Alister



Joined: 13 May 2005
Posts: 62
Location: Alberta, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was reviewing past threads for inspiration and came across this old gem.

KaVir wrote:

I think this is a nice concept, as it allows player to amuse each other rather than having to rely on the staff to create all the content. However the question is, why would players bother creating the dungeons? And once there's a valid reason to do so, how would you stop them creating unbalanced opponents or rewards?


What if putting treasures in dungeons allowed them to age and become more powerful. If an item remains unlooted for so much time, it gets a bonus to its current stats or some other special type of addition. Players have incentive to take the loot they find that is almost good, toss it in a dungeon, and wait for it to age and become usable.

For some players, those almost-good items might in fact be good, and they would be inclined to go into the dungeon and try to loot the item. Ideally, you’d end up getting a trickle-down of items from the most powerful players to the weaker players.

So what is preventing you from just stationing a dragon at the front of your dungeon that would prevent anyone who could actually make use of the loot inside from entering? Well, maybe you earn a share of the experience that adventurers in your dungeon receive. Maybe this experience could be specifically required for items in your dungeon to age. Dungeon keepers would have to balance the desire to make items unlootable, but still make a dungeon with enough prospects for adventurers that it will attract people inside.

I think something like this would be enhanced by a good search tool for figuring out where desirable loot is. “I want a sword that does +5 fire damage and gives me a strength bonus: where should I go look for this”.
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