Rolling your own? Why?
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Sandi



Joined: 13 May 2005
Posts: 94
Location: Boston

PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2005 3:29 pm    Post subject: Rolling your own? Why? Reply with quote

This question could go several places, but I'm putting it here to be as inclusive as possible (i.e., Imps, Coders, Builders, Playtesters...).

Basically, I'm wondering what the different motivations and goals are for starting a MUD either from scratch or with the intention of modifying it into a distinct derivative, or for building a world based on text.

In my own case, I started with ROM as I enjoyed it myself in its stock form. I played many modified ROM's, eventually specialising in being a playtester, and usually felt there was a lack of understanding of the game mechanics, and the order of importance of making changes.

Also, it seemed to me that there was a progression from Diku to Merc to ROM to ROT (ROT being the only released ROM deriv when I started), and each one became easier than the next. I felt a lot of the original challenge was being lost in favor of bigger, more impressive numbers and faster leveling. For instance, the word of recall spell became a command. Most modified ROMs had 'scan' as a command. This really takes the fun out of Middin'nir. Well, what I consider fun, anyway.

So, my intentions for starting a derivative were to back-date ROM a bit, include some of the older features that got lost along the way, and make things generally considered tedious a bit more complex and interesting. Another goal was to fine tune the balance of the game, so anyone modifying it would have a clearer understanding of what could be allowed.

Not terribly high aspirations, I suppose, but it's kept me busy. Obviously, by now, that last thing the world needs is yet another ROM, but I keep at it because I enjoy it.

So, what drives the rest of you?
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Kyuss



Joined: 13 May 2005
Posts: 37
Location: Southern Hellinois

PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2005 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

42 >> Sufi purpose?

Karmic Inner Child design?

It had to be done, I just dont remeber doing it.

Its a valid escape for my brain != NULL.

Dark Matter of Pyhsics playing the puppeter++.

Simply I wanted a MUD I myself would choose to play.

A huge D&D ruleset all its own.

Im sick, twisted and evil and I enjoy creating?
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Cornelius



Joined: 13 May 2005
Posts: 42
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2005 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Basically, I'm wondering what the different motivations and goals are for starting a MUD either from scratch or with the intention of modifying it into a distinct derivative, or for building a world based on text.


What has driven my urge to create my own unique game is that every MUD I ever played I thought, 'well I would do it this way'- or 'I could do this better'. I never found a MUD that I really enjoyed playing but I really enjoyed playing muds. So I figured the old adage was true, 'If you want it done right you've got to do it yourself'. With that mantra I set off, two weeks ago, on writing a new, original, and unique game for myself, I hope others will like it too.

But what I would like to do is create a genre of muds (lofty aspirations?) called warringstates muds. Just like they have bloodwar/racewar games that are defined by intense pk between different intrinsic sides of a war (good v. evil, mostly). My goal is to have anyone take up this code and with a few description changes go from my game set in Rome during the Second Punic War, to China during the Three Kingdoms Era, or Japan during their Warring States Period (where I get my name from). Or any theme with the basic underlying concept that player run factions compete with each other for dominance over the land.

This isn't a very original concept but I hope the way I do it will turn out to be original and effective (read: playable). And my reason for doing this? To become as famous as KaVir.
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Kelson



Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 71
Location: SC

PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2005 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do it because I love designing systems and it is very beneficial to spend time developing / implementing them. My mud is just an extension from that + never much liked taking another person's work and extending it (I feel I know Rom better than 90% of admins out there, but I still feel I don't _understand_ it). That and it gives me a chance to occassionally hear feedback from KaViR on my ideas Very Happy

Kelson
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KaVir



Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 565
Location: Munich

PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2005 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I created GodWars by accident while teaching myself to code so that I could work on another mud. It ended up being more popular than the other mud though, so I kept it going. It later evolved into Dark City then Last City, as my ideas and skills grew, but it was still based on what was effectively my first C program - it was poorly written, full of bugs, and becoming increasingly hindered by the underlying architecture. For all that, though, it did allow me to keep my C skills sharp, and (along with a few snippets I wrote) gave me an outlet for my programming urges during the two years of software testing I did at my first company. I doubt I'd have gotten through the technical tests for my second job if I hadn't done any coding in my spare time.

I created Gladiator Pits mostly to prove that I could write better code, as I was tired of people attacking me based on the quality of the GodWars code I'd written years earlier. I created the second version because I hadn't managed to add everything I'd wanted to the first, plus it gave me the chance to try out an idea I had for a combat system.

I originally started designing my current mud because there were loads of ideas I wanted to try out (many inspired by Nathan Yospe, who would always 'wow' me with the amazing concepts he discussed), and because I wanted to create something that I would enjoy playing. However perhaps my main motivation was due to me becoming increasingly demoralised by real-life work - I spent 2 years developing an application which was scrapped (along with me and everyone else working on that and two other projects) 10 days before the first customer release, because the customer no longer wanted it. I then started working for another company where I spent a year developing applications for a mobile phone which was then scrapped because they decided the market no longer wanted that model. Then I spent six months developing some Java APIs for a prototype which never went any further. After that I spent a year developing a prototype for interfacing a playstation with a mobile phone (it sounds more fun than it was) at which point the entire company branch shut down and the project vanished into some dusty archive. The longer this went on, the more I felt that I wasn't really achieving anything - well, I was making money, but I might as well have been paid to sit down the pub for four and a half years for all the use my work went to. Thus I ended up putting more and more time into creating my own mud, which I can now look back on as at least some sort of achievement.
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eiz



Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 152
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2005 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are two main reasons I'm working on Aetas:

1. I think the setting is incredibly neat despite the fact that I know it will never, ever be implemented.
2. Unifex deserves it. I originally got involved with his Deus codebase after having a long argument with him over the design of its module system. The result was that he received a patch at 2am implementing my version. Since then we have been arguing over design minutiae almost non-stop. And every now and then I slip in a goto or something while he's not paying attention. Smile

But in the sense of writing muds in general, the main reason is that they encompass several programming and design issues that I find interesting (programming languages are my main interest, but there are numerous others) in a convenient way. Or at least they can if you want them to. Plus it's fun.
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cron0s



Joined: 13 May 2005
Posts: 34
Location: UK

PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2005 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have always enjoyed playing online games, but more than that I have always found myself thinking critically about their design. I believe that starting your own MUD is an excellent way for anyone with an interest in online games to express their ideas.

I was working on my own codebase for a while, but I came to reaslise that I was spending more time worrying about the software design than the actual game design.

I am now going 'back to basics' with a Diku derivative that I am seeing how far I can push in terms of the game features that I want. I am trying to work with the existing code as much as possible and while I am a long way from a playable game, so far it is a lot of fun.
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Jaruzel



Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 13
Location: London, UK

PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2005 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I actually enjoy the creation process, more so than the playing process.

When I started my own codebase, I knew I could not write something that would equal the popular feature rich codebases out there, so I didn't attempt to emulate them. I aimed a little lower, and decided to go for a codebase that provided a 'Shades'-esque experience, ie. simple PvP and scavenging. (I was a major Shades player back in the days of Prestel and Micronet)

I used the years I was working on it as a means to try out new coding ideas and improve on old ones. I definately improved as a coder as a result of the work I did on MUD32.

I'm now focusing on a Graphical MUD, as I feel I've done as much as I can with a text MUD, and want a new challenge. It's a personal thing with me, and I'll keep on coding whether people play what I create or not.

-Jar.
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Scandum



Joined: 13 May 2005
Posts: 28
Location: I'm in the TV

PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2005 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I ended up being involved with running a mud with some friends when the old one I played vanished and it's source code was released. I mainly ended up making things better instead of adding new fluff, which wasn't a bad thing since the codebase was in a pretty bad shape and was feature rich already.

When I got bored with my diku mud I started working on the TinTin++ mud client, basicly doing the same thing.

I shall be honest about my modest aspiration which is eternal fame, though I settle for the satisfaction of delivering a decent piece of software as well.
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Ashon



Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 86
Location: Seattle

PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2005 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, when I first started working on my own mud, it was trying to deal with the frustration of working with other people. I'd worked my way up on a couple of muds that I played on, first becoming a builder, and then transitioning into a mudlib hacker. But when the items that I was interested in implementing weren't put on the table to be added, I decided crawling the forums, and looking for hiring coder types. And so, after a couple attempts at implementing their code ideas, the snippets they wanted, and watching as no building was getting done, I decided that I'd had enough, and found a project that was started and abandoned, and that I could take up.

And from there we've developed a core group with about 60 people keeping watch on us, checking our progress, and asking us questions, advice, and all the nifty stuff.

But it's progressed for me. Now I do it not because I want to run a MUD. But it's an exercise in Game Design, Game Theory, and RPG Design. Coming up with ideas and thought process, that sound fun and interesting.

I also think I'm addicted to the community.
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Rendelven



Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 6
Location: Arkansas

PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2005 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wanted to see if I could do it. Before then, most of my programming had been almost entirely spent hacking away at the many DIKU-Derivs out there. I decided that I wanted something to call my own, with no restrictions. I also wanted to provide the community with a workable C++ 'SocketMud'. Since there are many people out there who use C++ and are just learning, I figured I would try and get the 'hard' part out of the way and give a foundation for other people to build on. Ofcourse, progress is a little slow these days... Very Happy
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Kjartan



Joined: 13 May 2005
Posts: 110

PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2005 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had been mudding for about 6 months when I found the diku gamma code had been made public, and it just seemed obvious that I needed to start a mud now. I found that coding pretty much killed my ability to play, it just wasn't fun anymore, but coding is great.

My goal is to eventually make my mobs so smart that they can host a copy of my own intelligence. I am not keen on brain surgery for download, so I guess I will have to get it in there by having them watch and imitate me.
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Delerak



Joined: 17 May 2005
Posts: 49
Location: Tampa

PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2005 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pretty much the same as Cornelius. If you want something done right, you gotta do it yourself.
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Falco



Joined: 24 Jul 2005
Posts: 15
Location: The Drawing Room

PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2005 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, for starters, I've always enjoyed creating worlds and have probably created something like 2000 worlds (some variations and extensions of others), about two dozen of them with more detail than you'll find on most MUDs. Up until recently, I never seriously decided to begin taking my ideas and turning them into a MUD (I'm the laziest thing in shoe leather sometimes). Adding to this is my lack of relevant coding experience on MUDs (though I used to have a fair knowledge of BASIC way back in high school...yeah, I know that dates me as a fogey). The closest I ever came to creating an RPG of any type was programming one into my graphic calculator (managed to stuff 202 rooms, over 50 different mobs, over 50 different objects for 4 wear locations, etc into that li'l bugger) when I was supposed to be doing homework on it instead. Fortunately, I know some people who have the appropriate coding skills (though admittedly they're rusty too so it'll be an interesting experience for all early-on in the project).

Recently, especially since leaving SoI, I've had a lot of free time on my hands so I started working on several worlds, finally choosing one (not entirely by my own choice, but that's a long story) to actually begin creating. While still in the incipient stages of development, I'm at least getting my arse in gear and making use of one of those worlds I've designed (actually, I guess I'm not since I scratch built this one after deciding upon the theme).

So, that's my story.

Later,

Falco
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Lared



Joined: 07 Oct 2005
Posts: 26

PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2005 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Three words:

Because I can.

I'm sick of people dictating to me what I can and can't do with my game. Circle's little licensing caveat where they tell you that you cannot accept donations for maintaining the server is ridiculous. I don't need to put up with it, because I can code well enough to do it on my own.

I'm sick of people seeing my MUD as the same as everyone else's no matter how much work I put into changing it. This way I can truly make it different and unique, entirely unlike anyone else's except in the specific ways I choose.

It's complete freedom, and that's why I'm doing it. It's a level of control you can't get with Diku and LPmud lobotomies rarely scratch.
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